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How was this a good idea? (over LiveStats)

• 04-03-2008 10:39 AM

  • JPElectron
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  How was this a good idea? (over LiveStats)

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  So Microsoft took over LiveStats, which was an installable product behind the firewall, that didn't require code being added to each page, and instead made another "online service" that requires I be connected to the Internet, and my sites reach the Internet, in order to be used.

  Is there some product, that will be installable, that is in the same product line/path as LiveStats was?   For those who don't know LiveStats monitored/imported IIS logs directly to determine the referrer, pageviews, etc. and also account for downloads of .pdf .zip .exe files (anything really)

  With adCenter you've basically said/decided for me/sealed the deal that only reason I'd want to use analytics is to track ads or pages on my public/Internet-accessable site?  There's a whole world more than that - what are the rest of us to do?

   JP

• 04-09-2008 2:52 PM In reply to

  • Darrin Wood - MSFT
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  How was this a good idea? (over LiveStats)

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  Hi JP,

  Thanks for posting your concerns. We do not have any current plans to provide an installable, log-based analytics product.

  If you require log-based analysis, or if you require a locally-installed solution, our current analytics offering will not meet these requirements.

  Tracking sites other than public/Internet sites is an area we are watching. Can you speak more to the kinds of KPIs you track for your non-public sites?

  Thanks,

  -D

   

  Darrin Wood | Sr. Product Manager, Analytics
  Microsoft Advertiser & Publisher Solutions

• 04-11-2008 10:17 PM In reply to

  • JPElectron
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  How was this a good idea? (over LiveStats)

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  One example is to track Intranet (SharePoint or otherwise) usage... - user logins (based on Active Directory, integrated browser authentication) sometimes I would hold contests to promote the Intranet, the user who shows the most usage or posted content wins something at the end of the month
   - user IPs (so we can determine which office building, or which school within a district is most using/promoting the site)
   - downloads (.doc's like how-to resources, .wmv's like training videos) without log-based analytics I would be forced to construct "gateway pages" before the user gets served/redirected to the file, this is an extra step, that can also be circumvented if someone bookmarks or links the file directly, and thus analytics stats are inaccurate - and if inaccurate, what good is it to show that people are using it?...in this case the Intranet may be available only inside the firewall, there is no Internet access at all, or some adopted security policy may prohibit an external source from tracking internal page-views.
  
  Another example is to track the Internet Filter's blocked page... (WebSense, 8E6, DNS Redirector, or Proxy-based surfing)
  
   - user's don't always submit the request to unblock, even when the site is for a good/legitimate business purpose or simply not a risk to our network.  I review the trends of hits to the blocked page to determine if a site many people are trying should really be unblocked (referrer to the blocked page/site)
   - to make the case for a user who stubbornly keeps on trying to access a site that is blocked, they must not be busy enough with real work
   - to show trends of office in-activity, boredom, or be able to show how “most of the company suddenly tried to visit some ecard” that was sent to all staff
   - to review PCs infected with spyware or malware, if a certain machine is the "loudest talker" to the blocked page, and the requests are all for some "free golf clubs" popup, then I know I should go visit that PC or talk to the user
   - to make the case for how public/kiosk PCs, such as a terminal in the warehouse, lobby, library, or other public area are used vs. machines on people's desks, or in classrooms.

  ...in this case it might be, or become, a privacy issue that an outside analytics "service" especially one that seems to be geared towards tracking ads, would see all the ads (and other things) that we block.

  I’m sure allot of thought went into acquiring Livestats and then killing the installable (Livestats XSP) product in favor of a service, but I for one, and many CIO’s or other people at that level will not be easily sold on this.  Why is there such a rush to “outsource” everything to a “service” that is dependant on the Internet, and therefore susceptible to information miss-use, attack, or privacy issues, when I could run it internally behind the firewall and not have to worry about any of that.  An installable product is much simpler in that I own it and am responsible for it as an internal IT system, with anything hosted I am at the mercy of the service provider and I basically have to sit on my hands and wait for a resolution – this doesn’t go over well with the big guys upstairs.

  JP

• 04-14-2008 12:44 PM In reply to

  • Darrin Wood - MSFT
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  How was this a good idea? (over LiveStats)

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  Thanks for the details on your requirements and your need for log-based analysis.

  I appreciate your position on hosted solution versus a locally installed solution, and I understand your preference for log-based data collection. I would like to point out that much (if not all) of the tracking you mention can be accomplished with tag-based systems. This of course is only true when certain conditions are met (i.e. cookies are enabled, image requests can fire, etc). You provide a good view in your response of the conditions that must be met.

  In a previous role I worked with teams dedicated to analyzing internal sites. They used usernames and other methods to identify Intranet users. For those teams tag-based tracking was more advantageous than log-based tracking. What works well for some might not even meet the minimum bar for others.

  The scenarios you mention in your reply fall outside of the marketing scenarios we target with adCenter Analytics. Although this is currently the case I have noted your feedback and strong support for log-based, locally installed analytics.

  Thanks,

  -D

  Darrin Wood | Sr. Product Manager, Analytics
  Microsoft Advertiser & Publisher Solutions

• 04-18-2008 11:44 AM In reply to

  • JMVivas
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  How was this a good idea? (over LiveStats)

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   Just wanted to add a couple more reasons to keep the good old log-based version of LiveStats vs the new remotely hosted script: 

  - Legacy data:  with LiveStats it's just a matter of copying the logs to the right location
  - PDF/Flash/Images/etc: As JPElectron mentioned only the logs provide this
  - Browsers with no JS or cookies enable: I don't see any <noscript> tag provided
  - The "Who's On" feature on LiveStats was rubbish but users seemed to be impressed by it

  For me I guess the Legacy data  that proves more difficult when I try to sell the transition to my clients.

  I guess it's early days and we need to see how the tool evolves before committing a final veredict

  J 

    

• 05-06-2008 2:19 PM In reply to

  • djjay0131
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  How was this a good idea? (over LiveStats)

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   I am in a similar situation as you.  I would like to have all of the features that LiveStats used before, especially the file downloads.  I would also like the ability to import historical logs.  This new setup does not completely meet my needs, so I would be greatly interested to hear what you ultimately decide to do.

   

  Thanks,
  Jason
  

• 05-06-2008 2:20 PM In reply to

  • djjay0131
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  How was this a good idea? (over LiveStats)

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   Oh, one more thing.  It would really make things easier if I could add users.  Currently if I wanted to switch I cannot because I cannot create more than one user, and I can't give access to all of my site to all of my clients.

• 05-15-2008 8:37 AM In reply to

  • JMVivas
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  How was this a good idea? (over LiveStats)

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   Hi Jason

  You probably know this by now but I can see user admin has been added
  https://adcenter.microsoft.com/Analytics/users.aspx

  I guess MS Analitycs are getting there though the legacy logs are a big obstacle in our case.

  Cheers

   Julio